A deep, deep dive into the symbiotic relationship between right-wing influencers, Russian state media, and the shared disinformation ecosystem in which they live.
Thank you so much :) I appreciate that. I spent a lot of time on this one, so it’s nice to see that others can notice the details that went into it. I think the more we know about these tactics and talking points, the less vulnerable we become.
Yes, deeply impressive research to maintain the pretense that the American people don't have real grievances against their corrupt government that funds war and banks and crushes the citizenry.
Aug 19, 2023·edited Aug 19, 2023Liked by Caroline Orr Bueno
This is excellent work! Fascinating, and accessible insight into methods used in influence campaigns.
I don't follow Twitter, or many other social media driven by algorithms, but sadly the rage triggers and influencers are also poisoning many once-trusted news sources.
Im so glad you found me on Mastodon, and thank you for your great feedback. I agree with your sentiment towards algorithms — they really do reward the worst and most extreme human behavior, and the companies show no interest in improving it. And thus, bad actors will continue to exploit it.
Brilliant research, and article‼️‼️👍🏽😊 as soon as I saw that #hawaiinotukraine bullshit, it reeked of right wing, GOP cult persuasion, BS--- I can smell GOP called bullshit a mile away‼️😂😂😂
Excellent article and analysis, thank you. The kernel of truth is that the President’s own words, actions, and inactions make it very easy for these types of narratives to propagate. He is not trusted by nearly half the American electorate and viewed as an illegitimate President. As we get closer to the next round of Presidential elections, and radical changes in foreign policies (4 year cycle), these attacks will greatly intensify, amplify on both sides of the political online information space. I hope to see some good analysis on how the left is similarly manipulated by threat actors online
I try to hit both sides of the political divide because as you said, anyone and everyone is vulnerable to the effects of disinformation. The first article I wrote in my ongoing “Anatomy of a Viral Tweet” series was about a left-wing influencer account that turned out to be fake, but she managed to fool a lot of people for months by posting old and/or misleading headlines that were popular on the left. Maybe I’ll even start a new weekly chat where people can share examples of disinfo they’re seeing, so you and others can show me what you’re seeing out there. Thank you for reading, and gif your comment!
Thanks, once again, for doing such much needed investigative research...a source of information to counter the misinformation and disinformation out there! Keep up your good work!
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that. Ultimately, I hope I can help people start to spot and understand these tactics, because they tend to be pretty similar across campaigns.
Yes, for sure, been the same climate change denial, pro right wing anything bots and trolls for years now. Also appreciated your articles in the National Observer a couple of years ago!
Excellent work! If you are hearing a discord that Maui is angry at Biden. Please know that several community members (across many segments of society and race) have asked to have it pointed out - completely false. But they are not on internet right now, because they are trying to survive. (And no signal to post their complaints on the hour/0).
The people of Maui can credibly say they have been exploited for centuries. And had people try to sow discord there. They don’t need it at this moment, just because it’s the presidential campaign. This explains.
And why Maui? Because it has been Democratic since dawn as a state. However Trump won the Lahaina voting precinct (along w/ 1 on windward Oahu and another) all where hotel workers are concentrated in Hawaii last election. It is a ‘possible swing state’ for discourse. Also The Proud Boys leader lived there.
So to summarise, in Hawaii, there is a fire that demolished infrastructure. Something tweeted something that was picked by right-wings who the author opposes. At the same time she admits that more could be done about the situation in Hawaii, but it won't be done, basically justifying the above tweet. So now we have 3 problems inside the country. Hawaii needs help, right wings promote a tweet and help for Hawaii isn't efficient. But since the Russians picked this up as well, we can ignore those problems to fix our sights to the Russians.. That is what I say you light a fire to your next house because you hope it will burn brighter than your own.
Help for Hawaii is insufficient but that is completely unrelated to aid for Ukraine. The people who don’t want to give aid to Ukraine are the same people who have failed to support adequate funding for FEMA
So funding for Ukraine is completely unrelated to aid for Hawaii. That's your assertion. Okay, so why isn't Biden doing more for the US citizens who suffer in Hawaii, Ohio and everywhere else our country is being impoverished and wrecked? If the US govt has endless money to do everything why aren't they?
Let's end the pretense this isn't a problem with the entire US government and not just the Republican party.
We don't have endless money for everything and thinking that way while ignoring where the money is and isn't going is nonsense. Trillions for war, banks and global corporations while imposing austerity on the American people has been common practice for both parties for decades now. In the words of Joe Biden, c'mon man!
Imposing austerity on America’s neediest while giving tax breaks to the wealthy is what Republicans do. Biden had to agree to some spending cuts to avoid default. He was forced to negotiate with some radical, irrational Republicans in Congress.
Let’s stop with the phony both sides narrative. Let’s stop pretending we have two normal political parties and this is all politics as usual when one party had turned into a personality cult beholden to a wannabe authoritarian who, rather than upholding the Constitution as his oath demanded, was willing to violate the Constitution to stay in power.
Until we have weathered this crisis, if we do, arguments about spending are a distraction. (and this Ukraine/Hawaii dichotomy is a deliberate discussion)
Woo boy, grants for temporary housing and home repairs and low-cost loans to cover uninsured property losses.
I take it all back. Tens of trillions to banks and the MIC and we get low cost loans. Have your expectations of your government been so low for so long that this impresses you?
FEMA disaster aid is always inadequate. We have known this for years. Why did we ignore the warnings? Certainly can’t blame Ukraine for what we failed to do a decade ago.
I'm not blaming Ukrainians for anything -- the people there wanted peace. The Ukrainian government betrayed that demand. I think Ukraine was a preventable tragedy and I agree that leaving them in the lurch right now would be morally horrific. But what are we doing to them? Are we actually helping them? We are not. If we cared about the Ukrainian people instead of this idiotic goal of "weakening Russia", which isn't even happening, we would sue for peace immediately and tell the Ukrainian government that they must remain a non-NATO neutral state -- which is all Russia wanted in the first place.
And I'd add that international asset management firms such as BlackRock do not want to help Ukraine and any postwar arrangements will merely replace the Ukrainian oligarchs with western ones.
The entire apparatus of government in the US has been hijacked by global corporate interests that care nothing for the people of Ukraine or anywhere else, least of all the people here in the US they continue to loot. As for why FEMA aid is always inadequate -- this is why.
If you're not impressed then why bother pointing it out?
Biden, and the government, have wrecked the entire country and a little bit of dosh now, while I'm sure welcome by those suffering in Hawaii and Ohio, isn't going to repair it. The people in East Palestine, Flint, and thousands of towns and cities across the nation have polluted, toxic drinking water and nothing is being done about it. Are we spending trillions to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, raise living standards and re-employ the great army of the unemployed they pretend doesn't exist?
I'm so tired of people defending our corrupt, elitist, arrogant government by pointing out the tiny gestures they make.
Right, the point is that Hawaii’s current situation is not the result of the US providing aid to Ukraine, but that false talking point is an explicitly pro-Russia, anti-Ukraine stance.
Apocalypse IS going on, retard. Are you nostalgic for the Eastern block, retard? Well, Russia is coming for it, retard. Good luck with a free world after that, retard!
…it’s nice when you put “retard” after every sentence, it becomes kind of poetic :-)
Nobody said we should ignore these problems. The reason for exposing Russian interference is not to excuse problems in Hawaii. It is to alert us to Russia’s efforts to manipulate the situation to their advantage
Whose advantage? Do you actually think we have helped the Ukrainian people by stoking and prolonging the proxy war against Russia? Hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians might disagree.
The Ukrainians elected Zelensky to bring peace with Russia by overwhelming numbers and yet he didn't even comply with the Minsk Accords his own government agreed to that would have averted this war.
"Nobody said we should ignore these problems" but that's exactly what's happening.
The point, I believe, is that Ukraine is not the reason Hawaii’s needs are being ignored or unaddressed. Nor was Ukraine the reason that Ohio residents’ needs were not addressed after the train derailment. Blaming those failures on Ukraine distracts from the actual causes, including a dysfunctional and understaffed FEMA, a neglected disaster response system, poor interagency communication, the death of local journalism (and the resulting lack of national attention), and more. Saying it’s because of Ukraine is not helping anyone nor is it accurate.
You seem to believe two contradictory things with this statement:
1. government is highly efficient and can do and be all things for all causes
2. that our disaster response infrastructure is in terrible shape and lack of national attention is an issue in this
I agree with the second but don't see how it comports with the first. Perhaps government can't do all things at once and focus on domestic needs must be prioritized.
In the US we live under the delusion that our "exceptional" nature gives us no limits. Well, we are seeing those limits all over the place. From not being able to supply Ukraine with artillery shells, to the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of preventable yearly deaths due to poor healthcare availability, to failing infrastructure and every other national mess -- all while bemoaning the lack of funds available for these needs and simultaneously delivering trillions to the destructive and wasteful military industrial complex. And that doesn't even get to the question of why we are in Ukraine in the first place.
What possible good does it to the American people to help instigate a coup, provoke a war and spend well over a hundred billion dollars on a war against Russia? It's just the same military misadventures we've seen for half a century all while the home front disintegrates. Had it not occurred to you the two are linked? That the more our "leaders" focus their attention on ruling the world on behalf of the financial and energy oligarchs the less they care for or even respect the people they nominally serve?
The Minsk Accords prescribed actions both sides, the Ukrainian govt and DPR/LPR were to take. You can argue who was to blame among those parties for the lack of compliance but it is generally accepted that Ukraine, on the main points in the accords, refused to comply for 8 years. In fact, Angela Merkel herself (who was involved in the Minsk II agreement) repeatedly said Ukraine had no intention of complying and Germany didn't demand they do so because the accords were only put in place to give Ukraine time to arm and prepare to retake the Donbas by force.
Russia had absolutely no requirements placed on it by either accord: they were both between the Donbas and Ukrainian state so to say Russia was "noncompliant" is ridiculous and only serves to underline your ignorance.
There's actually a lot of evidence. The series below I link to here lays out much of it, day by day. The blogger who wrote up this narrative, with links and footnotes, is not Russian btw. Just someone who seeks the truth.
It's interesting that you don't deny any of the other things I wrote. That the Ukrainian military began a civil war in the Donbase and how many were killed. But you can't deny that because it's based on UN reports. So EVEN IF Ukraine had no plans to retake the Donbas, should Russia have just sat there while tens of thousands more ethnic Russian civilians were slaughtered?
What do you have to say about the burning of the Trade Union House in Odessas on May 2, 2014 where dozens of innocents were burned alive simply because they disagreed with the US-backed coup?
How do you feel about Stepan Bandera? Is he a "hero of Ukraine"?
When you admit to the vicious and murderous treatment of ethnic Russians in Ukraine over the years 2014-2022 and condemn that behavior and the push to valorize Bandera and his beliefs then perhaps we can have some kind of discussion. I lost all of my European family to that monster. Tell me how he's a hero.
Instead of acknowledging that people of differing political views can have their own very legitimate concerns that sometimes unfortunately lead them to supporting the wrong side (at least in my opinion), and trying to do something about it, their concerns are summarily dismissed because Russian propaganda machine jumped on the cause and exploited it.
I'm afraid that by oversimplifying the situation like that, the author herself could be considered engaging in disinformation - at least by her own (very good) definition in the last paragraph of the article - and playing into Russia's hands.
No one’s concerns are being summarily dismissed. The point is that the narrative here — that Hawaii’s needs are being overlooked or ignored because of our involvement in Ukraine — is false. That’s just a false narrative, regardless of your feelings about Ukraine. The response in Hawaii would be no different if we pulled all support from Ukraine tomorrow, and we know this because we can look at our history of (not) responding to disasters adequately, as well as a plethora of reports detailing the weaknesses in our disaster response capabilities — including, specifically, an inability to quickly respond to disasters affecting Americans outside of the continental US, like in Hawaii — and other reports warning that we aren’t prepared to respond to the disasters that climate change is causing. FEMA is dysfunctional and understaffed, and this has been known for years. Why didn’t we do anything about this? Why were all of these warnings ignored? You certainly can’t blame Ukraine for things we failed to do 5, 10, 20+ years ago.
I see the narrative as somewhat different (mostly in the timeline, but that makes an important difference).
About half of US population seems to be thinking that their concerns have been ignored by those in power (current admin, "establishment", bureaucratic system, "rich men North of Richmond", etc. etc.) for a long time. And they think that if they would have been listened to (and not dismissed as deplorables, racists, Russian agents, etc., which most of them aren't), the situation _now_ would have been better - including disaster response and many other things around them. And if they are listened to now, the situation will be better in the future. (In other words, they have a very different set of ideas about what would be the right thing to do (whether those ideas are valid and could work is irrelevant here))
Now, significant part of them has been so much alienated by the actions of their government (esp. in covid times) that they just want their government to suffer. They want it to lose - everywhere, including in Ukraine. That is why an average "Mary" brings Ukraine into this picture, and not because she is a Russian agent.
The precise politics are again irrelevant (it's irrelevant whether "Mary" is right or wrong), what's important is the result. And the result can be an isolationist candidate winning in 2024, with the obvious negative consequences for Ukraine. (I believe Ukraine will still win in that case, but it will be much harder, obviously.)
Again, I think that politics probably cannot be fixed. But on the subject of Ukraine, it's not needed. If instead of dismissing these people, we simply speak to them, explain to them what the real situation is, how the Russian regime actually operates, what dangers it brings with it to everyone around (and also what its limits are, to counter some unjustified fears of escalation), they often realize that Russian regime is actually very much the same (actually much bigger) evil they think they are standing against in their local politics. And if Russian propaganda machine is smart, that's exactly the kind of conversation it would want to prevent.
You do go on. Did it not occur to you, but of course it did, that Biden and the sclerotic, corrupt US government have been ignoring, nay, persecuting a war, on the American people for many decades beginning with the offshoring of our manufacturing sector, looting the treasury to backstop corrupt banks while imposing austerity and starvation on the people? Have you looked at the collapsing longevity of the American people? Healthcare, education, housing and food costs have been skyrocketing while salaries, in real terms, have been dropping for decades.
Hawaii Not Ukraine is a perfectly rational response to this deprivation and corruption. $700 to the Hawaiians who lost everything is an insult while we pour over a hundred billion into Ukraine, trillions into the bottomless maw of the MIC and tens of trillions into the banking system.
Not to mention we aren't "helping" the Ukrainians -- we are actively destroying their nation in our proxy war against Russia. Hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and a destroyed, rump state are the result. Not some vague "weakening" of Russia which isn't happening anyway and why was it our goal in the first place?
My ancestors came from the same region that is now Ukraine and all of my family that stayed there died at the hands of Stepan Bandera and his gang of murderous thugs during WWII. And now my own government funds, arms and trains the followers of Bandera while they once again do their monstrous and vile best to destroy their own people in a war they could NEVER win against Russia.
You proudly carry on the information war against the American people and on behalf of a globalist elite that cares nothing for the citizenry here in the US. And now you can have a sad because the US empire is collapsing and that can only mean the long-suffering American people might have a chance to regain control of our government. I pray for the day when people like you are too ashamed of what you have done to keep writing garbage like this.
I will end by asking the question your type always asks when you read something you don't like: who exactly is paying you to write this tendentious and insulting propaganda defending the US government and its warmongering and looting of the American taxpayer? Your name should be Caroline No Bueno.
I came across this via someone posting a story with a link to a conspiracy video about Thomas Binder.
Well done.
I suspect that social media and generative AI are confronting us with our weaknesses, specifically the weakness of how our 'intelligence' mostly works (speedy, efficiently, but 'approximately') and that when all is said and done we will have to confront that we may be relatively the most intelligent species, but in an absolute sense our intelligence has serious limitations. Even your professor in analytical philosophy may adopt conspiracy theories. Analytic intelligence is a weak defence against this kind of behaviour.
Social media hacks directly into how we 'quickly' assess 'truthfulness', in (a) it comes often and/or (b) it comes from 'close by'. Influencers for instance, feel like 'friends', the comment section feels like 'tribe members'. We are exceedingly vulnerable as a species now that our intelligence that evolved for groups of 150-200 (Dunbar's Number) is confronted with gossip and talk at the thousands-millions level. Generative AI with its 'perfect (though meaning-wise unreliable) language' also hacks into our 'quick assessment' intelligence. If it sounds well spoken, we take that as a measure for truthfulness. So, on top of the dangers of social media, we now get GenAI. All very much bypassing the defences against nonsense that we have.
Thank you so much for this informative expose. Living on Maui since 1980, when some of the crazy assertions started proliferating on social media I posted a couple of weeks ago on FB that maybe Russia is behind some of it. But shame the comments section has devolved into a slanging match, though good for you not deleting some comments because we can easily discern who the dodgy characters are!
If American people believe that phrase and desire it to be viral then it is authentic. You are determining what is authentic or not based on your own bias and authoritative credentials. Conveniently mixing in an undesired narrative with foreign influence. There is no line in information operations between foreign or domestic influence after recent policy and joint postures.
The anomaly leaves open influence for U.S political rivals, corporations, and other groups of power to push "unknown" content authenticity into the foreign influence category of national security information operations such as this.
This has a State Media propaganda feel with a hint of a particular political leaning. Being against U.S involvement with Ukraine doesnt mean Russia is behind it.
Im certain an adverasary plays a role to disrupt or boost any situation that arises but that doesnt mean people dont genuinely feel a certain way or desire for thier collective voice to be heard by the government and to reach fellow peers.
Well, for one thing, the sentiment can be genuine (and much of it is), but the message can still be false. As I just wrote this morning, blaming these failures on Ukraine is just not a fact-based position, and it ignores decades of research on failures in disaster response. Also, a sentiment can be genuine even when the amplification of it is not. In fact, that’s how some of the most effective disinformation campaigns play out — they take a genuine feeling or factual claim, then artificially amplify it to make it seem more common or more widely acceptable than it actually is. That’s often how extremism views and hate gets mainstreamed.
Saying there’s foreign influence doesn’t negate the genuine feelings here — but it does (should, at least) serve as a warning to make sure we’re not letting anyone exploit those feelings or drive us to share propaganda/disinformation. This is what I talked about in the article I posted today — check it out.
Comparing Russia's use of the Hawaii attack vs the Ukraine war and what the US did in Ukraine , in order to attack Russians in Ukraine is like saying Russia started the War . They didn't - how do I know this - I retired in Ukraine in 2012 and prior to that I worked there. I also know that both Russia and the US have direct energy weapons, Haarp, other " space type weapons, and climate / structural geologic weapons. Russia and China are the least of the worries, compared to what the USG is doing in the world.
RT didn't cover the Maui attack- and they are not that good of a news source for the US , but way better than the Times or WaPo. I used the good old fashion way - I researched the US Space Weapons a long long time ago. Now go back to your government cubical.
I have done some reading about authoritarianism and Trump and his MAGA movement fit the description. There is a big difference between contesting elections with lawsuits and petitions for recounts and coming up with a scheme to submit electors who did not represent the actual outcomes in their states and pressuring the Vice President to exercise power he did not legitimately have.
As is so often the case, I am deeply impressed by the details you have dug up.
Thank you so much :) I appreciate that. I spent a lot of time on this one, so it’s nice to see that others can notice the details that went into it. I think the more we know about these tactics and talking points, the less vulnerable we become.
Yes, deeply impressive research to maintain the pretense that the American people don't have real grievances against their corrupt government that funds war and banks and crushes the citizenry.
Give it up buddy we cane see who you are rooting for!
Address the substance or shut up.
No need your comment speaks for itself.
I see. So you're for war, trillions for banks and a censored, impoverished populace. At least you know where you stand.
This is excellent work! Fascinating, and accessible insight into methods used in influence campaigns.
I don't follow Twitter, or many other social media driven by algorithms, but sadly the rage triggers and influencers are also poisoning many once-trusted news sources.
(I ran across your work on Mastodon)
Im so glad you found me on Mastodon, and thank you for your great feedback. I agree with your sentiment towards algorithms — they really do reward the worst and most extreme human behavior, and the companies show no interest in improving it. And thus, bad actors will continue to exploit it.
Brilliant research, and article‼️‼️👍🏽😊 as soon as I saw that #hawaiinotukraine bullshit, it reeked of right wing, GOP cult persuasion, BS--- I can smell GOP called bullshit a mile away‼️😂😂😂
Excellent article and analysis, thank you. The kernel of truth is that the President’s own words, actions, and inactions make it very easy for these types of narratives to propagate. He is not trusted by nearly half the American electorate and viewed as an illegitimate President. As we get closer to the next round of Presidential elections, and radical changes in foreign policies (4 year cycle), these attacks will greatly intensify, amplify on both sides of the political online information space. I hope to see some good analysis on how the left is similarly manipulated by threat actors online
I try to hit both sides of the political divide because as you said, anyone and everyone is vulnerable to the effects of disinformation. The first article I wrote in my ongoing “Anatomy of a Viral Tweet” series was about a left-wing influencer account that turned out to be fake, but she managed to fool a lot of people for months by posting old and/or misleading headlines that were popular on the left. Maybe I’ll even start a new weekly chat where people can share examples of disinfo they’re seeing, so you and others can show me what you’re seeing out there. Thank you for reading, and gif your comment!
Thanks, once again, for doing such much needed investigative research...a source of information to counter the misinformation and disinformation out there! Keep up your good work!
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that. Ultimately, I hope I can help people start to spot and understand these tactics, because they tend to be pretty similar across campaigns.
.,
Yes, for sure, been the same climate change denial, pro right wing anything bots and trolls for years now. Also appreciated your articles in the National Observer a couple of years ago!
There may be a few more in the future :)
Excellent work! If you are hearing a discord that Maui is angry at Biden. Please know that several community members (across many segments of society and race) have asked to have it pointed out - completely false. But they are not on internet right now, because they are trying to survive. (And no signal to post their complaints on the hour/0).
The people of Maui can credibly say they have been exploited for centuries. And had people try to sow discord there. They don’t need it at this moment, just because it’s the presidential campaign. This explains.
And why Maui? Because it has been Democratic since dawn as a state. However Trump won the Lahaina voting precinct (along w/ 1 on windward Oahu and another) all where hotel workers are concentrated in Hawaii last election. It is a ‘possible swing state’ for discourse. Also The Proud Boys leader lived there.
I was a full-time resident of Lahaina for 12 years until pandemic end and still pay taxes there.
So to summarise, in Hawaii, there is a fire that demolished infrastructure. Something tweeted something that was picked by right-wings who the author opposes. At the same time she admits that more could be done about the situation in Hawaii, but it won't be done, basically justifying the above tweet. So now we have 3 problems inside the country. Hawaii needs help, right wings promote a tweet and help for Hawaii isn't efficient. But since the Russians picked this up as well, we can ignore those problems to fix our sights to the Russians.. That is what I say you light a fire to your next house because you hope it will burn brighter than your own.
Help for Hawaii is insufficient but that is completely unrelated to aid for Ukraine. The people who don’t want to give aid to Ukraine are the same people who have failed to support adequate funding for FEMA
This, exactly. Thank you.
So funding for Ukraine is completely unrelated to aid for Hawaii. That's your assertion. Okay, so why isn't Biden doing more for the US citizens who suffer in Hawaii, Ohio and everywhere else our country is being impoverished and wrecked? If the US govt has endless money to do everything why aren't they?
Let's end the pretense this isn't a problem with the entire US government and not just the Republican party.
We don't have endless money for everything and thinking that way while ignoring where the money is and isn't going is nonsense. Trillions for war, banks and global corporations while imposing austerity on the American people has been common practice for both parties for decades now. In the words of Joe Biden, c'mon man!
Imposing austerity on America’s neediest while giving tax breaks to the wealthy is what Republicans do. Biden had to agree to some spending cuts to avoid default. He was forced to negotiate with some radical, irrational Republicans in Congress.
Let’s stop with the phony both sides narrative. Let’s stop pretending we have two normal political parties and this is all politics as usual when one party had turned into a personality cult beholden to a wannabe authoritarian who, rather than upholding the Constitution as his oath demanded, was willing to violate the Constitution to stay in power.
Until we have weathered this crisis, if we do, arguments about spending are a distraction. (and this Ukraine/Hawaii dichotomy is a deliberate discussion)
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2023/how-is-fema-helping-ohio-train-derailment/
https://governor.hawaii.gov/newsroom/office-of-the-governor-news-release-pres-biden-approves-federal-disaster-relief-for-hawaii/
Woo boy, grants for temporary housing and home repairs and low-cost loans to cover uninsured property losses.
I take it all back. Tens of trillions to banks and the MIC and we get low cost loans. Have your expectations of your government been so low for so long that this impresses you?
FEMA disaster aid is always inadequate. We have known this for years. Why did we ignore the warnings? Certainly can’t blame Ukraine for what we failed to do a decade ago.
I'm not blaming Ukrainians for anything -- the people there wanted peace. The Ukrainian government betrayed that demand. I think Ukraine was a preventable tragedy and I agree that leaving them in the lurch right now would be morally horrific. But what are we doing to them? Are we actually helping them? We are not. If we cared about the Ukrainian people instead of this idiotic goal of "weakening Russia", which isn't even happening, we would sue for peace immediately and tell the Ukrainian government that they must remain a non-NATO neutral state -- which is all Russia wanted in the first place.
And I'd add that international asset management firms such as BlackRock do not want to help Ukraine and any postwar arrangements will merely replace the Ukrainian oligarchs with western ones.
The entire apparatus of government in the US has been hijacked by global corporate interests that care nothing for the people of Ukraine or anywhere else, least of all the people here in the US they continue to loot. As for why FEMA aid is always inadequate -- this is why.
Tens of trillions? Please verify your numbers?
I never said I was impressed. I’m just refuting your assertion that Biden has left Hawaii and Ohio impoverished and wrecked
If you're not impressed then why bother pointing it out?
Biden, and the government, have wrecked the entire country and a little bit of dosh now, while I'm sure welcome by those suffering in Hawaii and Ohio, isn't going to repair it. The people in East Palestine, Flint, and thousands of towns and cities across the nation have polluted, toxic drinking water and nothing is being done about it. Are we spending trillions to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, raise living standards and re-employ the great army of the unemployed they pretend doesn't exist?
I'm so tired of people defending our corrupt, elitist, arrogant government by pointing out the tiny gestures they make.
Right, the point is that Hawaii’s current situation is not the result of the US providing aid to Ukraine, but that false talking point is an explicitly pro-Russia, anti-Ukraine stance.
Why are you rooting for the apocalypse, you fucking retard?
Apocalypse IS going on, retard. Are you nostalgic for the Eastern block, retard? Well, Russia is coming for it, retard. Good luck with a free world after that, retard!
…it’s nice when you put “retard” after every sentence, it becomes kind of poetic :-)
Russia is not.
Also, get your own material.
Nobody said we should ignore these problems. The reason for exposing Russian interference is not to excuse problems in Hawaii. It is to alert us to Russia’s efforts to manipulate the situation to their advantage
Whose advantage? Do you actually think we have helped the Ukrainian people by stoking and prolonging the proxy war against Russia? Hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians might disagree.
The Ukrainians elected Zelensky to bring peace with Russia by overwhelming numbers and yet he didn't even comply with the Minsk Accords his own government agreed to that would have averted this war.
"Nobody said we should ignore these problems" but that's exactly what's happening.
The point, I believe, is that Ukraine is not the reason Hawaii’s needs are being ignored or unaddressed. Nor was Ukraine the reason that Ohio residents’ needs were not addressed after the train derailment. Blaming those failures on Ukraine distracts from the actual causes, including a dysfunctional and understaffed FEMA, a neglected disaster response system, poor interagency communication, the death of local journalism (and the resulting lack of national attention), and more. Saying it’s because of Ukraine is not helping anyone nor is it accurate.
You seem to believe two contradictory things with this statement:
1. government is highly efficient and can do and be all things for all causes
2. that our disaster response infrastructure is in terrible shape and lack of national attention is an issue in this
I agree with the second but don't see how it comports with the first. Perhaps government can't do all things at once and focus on domestic needs must be prioritized.
In the US we live under the delusion that our "exceptional" nature gives us no limits. Well, we are seeing those limits all over the place. From not being able to supply Ukraine with artillery shells, to the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of preventable yearly deaths due to poor healthcare availability, to failing infrastructure and every other national mess -- all while bemoaning the lack of funds available for these needs and simultaneously delivering trillions to the destructive and wasteful military industrial complex. And that doesn't even get to the question of why we are in Ukraine in the first place.
What possible good does it to the American people to help instigate a coup, provoke a war and spend well over a hundred billion dollars on a war against Russia? It's just the same military misadventures we've seen for half a century all while the home front disintegrates. Had it not occurred to you the two are linked? That the more our "leaders" focus their attention on ruling the world on behalf of the financial and energy oligarchs the less they care for or even respect the people they nominally serve?
The noncompliant party to the Minsk accords was the Russian state.
The Minsk Accords prescribed actions both sides, the Ukrainian govt and DPR/LPR were to take. You can argue who was to blame among those parties for the lack of compliance but it is generally accepted that Ukraine, on the main points in the accords, refused to comply for 8 years. In fact, Angela Merkel herself (who was involved in the Minsk II agreement) repeatedly said Ukraine had no intention of complying and Germany didn't demand they do so because the accords were only put in place to give Ukraine time to arm and prepare to retake the Donbas by force.
Russia had absolutely no requirements placed on it by either accord: they were both between the Donbas and Ukrainian state so to say Russia was "noncompliant" is ridiculous and only serves to underline your ignorance.
What you are saying under this article is just a lie. Straight up.
Ukraine did not plan to retake anything by force. Yes, it is a famous Russian narrative, but you will not find any evidence.
There's actually a lot of evidence. The series below I link to here lays out much of it, day by day. The blogger who wrote up this narrative, with links and footnotes, is not Russian btw. Just someone who seeks the truth.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-friday-february-18-2022.html
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-saturday-february-19-2022.html
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-sunday-february-20-2022.html
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-monday-february-21-2022.html
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-tuesday-february-22-2022.html
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-wednesday-february-23-2022.html
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-closure.html
It's interesting that you don't deny any of the other things I wrote. That the Ukrainian military began a civil war in the Donbase and how many were killed. But you can't deny that because it's based on UN reports. So EVEN IF Ukraine had no plans to retake the Donbas, should Russia have just sat there while tens of thousands more ethnic Russian civilians were slaughtered?
What do you have to say about the burning of the Trade Union House in Odessas on May 2, 2014 where dozens of innocents were burned alive simply because they disagreed with the US-backed coup?
How do you feel about Stepan Bandera? Is he a "hero of Ukraine"?
When you admit to the vicious and murderous treatment of ethnic Russians in Ukraine over the years 2014-2022 and condemn that behavior and the push to valorize Bandera and his beliefs then perhaps we can have some kind of discussion. I lost all of my European family to that monster. Tell me how he's a hero.
This is a very good summary of the article.
Instead of acknowledging that people of differing political views can have their own very legitimate concerns that sometimes unfortunately lead them to supporting the wrong side (at least in my opinion), and trying to do something about it, their concerns are summarily dismissed because Russian propaganda machine jumped on the cause and exploited it.
I'm afraid that by oversimplifying the situation like that, the author herself could be considered engaging in disinformation - at least by her own (very good) definition in the last paragraph of the article - and playing into Russia's hands.
No one’s concerns are being summarily dismissed. The point is that the narrative here — that Hawaii’s needs are being overlooked or ignored because of our involvement in Ukraine — is false. That’s just a false narrative, regardless of your feelings about Ukraine. The response in Hawaii would be no different if we pulled all support from Ukraine tomorrow, and we know this because we can look at our history of (not) responding to disasters adequately, as well as a plethora of reports detailing the weaknesses in our disaster response capabilities — including, specifically, an inability to quickly respond to disasters affecting Americans outside of the continental US, like in Hawaii — and other reports warning that we aren’t prepared to respond to the disasters that climate change is causing. FEMA is dysfunctional and understaffed, and this has been known for years. Why didn’t we do anything about this? Why were all of these warnings ignored? You certainly can’t blame Ukraine for things we failed to do 5, 10, 20+ years ago.
I see the narrative as somewhat different (mostly in the timeline, but that makes an important difference).
About half of US population seems to be thinking that their concerns have been ignored by those in power (current admin, "establishment", bureaucratic system, "rich men North of Richmond", etc. etc.) for a long time. And they think that if they would have been listened to (and not dismissed as deplorables, racists, Russian agents, etc., which most of them aren't), the situation _now_ would have been better - including disaster response and many other things around them. And if they are listened to now, the situation will be better in the future. (In other words, they have a very different set of ideas about what would be the right thing to do (whether those ideas are valid and could work is irrelevant here))
Now, significant part of them has been so much alienated by the actions of their government (esp. in covid times) that they just want their government to suffer. They want it to lose - everywhere, including in Ukraine. That is why an average "Mary" brings Ukraine into this picture, and not because she is a Russian agent.
The precise politics are again irrelevant (it's irrelevant whether "Mary" is right or wrong), what's important is the result. And the result can be an isolationist candidate winning in 2024, with the obvious negative consequences for Ukraine. (I believe Ukraine will still win in that case, but it will be much harder, obviously.)
Again, I think that politics probably cannot be fixed. But on the subject of Ukraine, it's not needed. If instead of dismissing these people, we simply speak to them, explain to them what the real situation is, how the Russian regime actually operates, what dangers it brings with it to everyone around (and also what its limits are, to counter some unjustified fears of escalation), they often realize that Russian regime is actually very much the same (actually much bigger) evil they think they are standing against in their local politics. And if Russian propaganda machine is smart, that's exactly the kind of conversation it would want to prevent.
You do go on. Did it not occur to you, but of course it did, that Biden and the sclerotic, corrupt US government have been ignoring, nay, persecuting a war, on the American people for many decades beginning with the offshoring of our manufacturing sector, looting the treasury to backstop corrupt banks while imposing austerity and starvation on the people? Have you looked at the collapsing longevity of the American people? Healthcare, education, housing and food costs have been skyrocketing while salaries, in real terms, have been dropping for decades.
Hawaii Not Ukraine is a perfectly rational response to this deprivation and corruption. $700 to the Hawaiians who lost everything is an insult while we pour over a hundred billion into Ukraine, trillions into the bottomless maw of the MIC and tens of trillions into the banking system.
Not to mention we aren't "helping" the Ukrainians -- we are actively destroying their nation in our proxy war against Russia. Hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and a destroyed, rump state are the result. Not some vague "weakening" of Russia which isn't happening anyway and why was it our goal in the first place?
My ancestors came from the same region that is now Ukraine and all of my family that stayed there died at the hands of Stepan Bandera and his gang of murderous thugs during WWII. And now my own government funds, arms and trains the followers of Bandera while they once again do their monstrous and vile best to destroy their own people in a war they could NEVER win against Russia.
You proudly carry on the information war against the American people and on behalf of a globalist elite that cares nothing for the citizenry here in the US. And now you can have a sad because the US empire is collapsing and that can only mean the long-suffering American people might have a chance to regain control of our government. I pray for the day when people like you are too ashamed of what you have done to keep writing garbage like this.
I will end by asking the question your type always asks when you read something you don't like: who exactly is paying you to write this tendentious and insulting propaganda defending the US government and its warmongering and looting of the American taxpayer? Your name should be Caroline No Bueno.
Wait. Are you saying the Russian government tries to manipulate public opinion about the Ukraine war
via social media? I'm shocked! Our country would never engage in such underhanded behavior.
I came across this via someone posting a story with a link to a conspiracy video about Thomas Binder.
Well done.
I suspect that social media and generative AI are confronting us with our weaknesses, specifically the weakness of how our 'intelligence' mostly works (speedy, efficiently, but 'approximately') and that when all is said and done we will have to confront that we may be relatively the most intelligent species, but in an absolute sense our intelligence has serious limitations. Even your professor in analytical philosophy may adopt conspiracy theories. Analytic intelligence is a weak defence against this kind of behaviour.
Social media hacks directly into how we 'quickly' assess 'truthfulness', in (a) it comes often and/or (b) it comes from 'close by'. Influencers for instance, feel like 'friends', the comment section feels like 'tribe members'. We are exceedingly vulnerable as a species now that our intelligence that evolved for groups of 150-200 (Dunbar's Number) is confronted with gossip and talk at the thousands-millions level. Generative AI with its 'perfect (though meaning-wise unreliable) language' also hacks into our 'quick assessment' intelligence. If it sounds well spoken, we take that as a measure for truthfulness. So, on top of the dangers of social media, we now get GenAI. All very much bypassing the defences against nonsense that we have.
Thank you so much for this informative expose. Living on Maui since 1980, when some of the crazy assertions started proliferating on social media I posted a couple of weeks ago on FB that maybe Russia is behind some of it. But shame the comments section has devolved into a slanging match, though good for you not deleting some comments because we can easily discern who the dodgy characters are!
If American people believe that phrase and desire it to be viral then it is authentic. You are determining what is authentic or not based on your own bias and authoritative credentials. Conveniently mixing in an undesired narrative with foreign influence. There is no line in information operations between foreign or domestic influence after recent policy and joint postures.
The anomaly leaves open influence for U.S political rivals, corporations, and other groups of power to push "unknown" content authenticity into the foreign influence category of national security information operations such as this.
This has a State Media propaganda feel with a hint of a particular political leaning. Being against U.S involvement with Ukraine doesnt mean Russia is behind it.
Im certain an adverasary plays a role to disrupt or boost any situation that arises but that doesnt mean people dont genuinely feel a certain way or desire for thier collective voice to be heard by the government and to reach fellow peers.
Foreign influence is an excuse.
Well, for one thing, the sentiment can be genuine (and much of it is), but the message can still be false. As I just wrote this morning, blaming these failures on Ukraine is just not a fact-based position, and it ignores decades of research on failures in disaster response. Also, a sentiment can be genuine even when the amplification of it is not. In fact, that’s how some of the most effective disinformation campaigns play out — they take a genuine feeling or factual claim, then artificially amplify it to make it seem more common or more widely acceptable than it actually is. That’s often how extremism views and hate gets mainstreamed.
Saying there’s foreign influence doesn’t negate the genuine feelings here — but it does (should, at least) serve as a warning to make sure we’re not letting anyone exploit those feelings or drive us to share propaganda/disinformation. This is what I talked about in the article I posted today — check it out.
Just FYI - the retweets keying off of “Kennedy” are probably tied to the libertarian/ right-wing TV personality Kennedy, who was a former MTV VJ.
Comparing Russia's use of the Hawaii attack vs the Ukraine war and what the US did in Ukraine , in order to attack Russians in Ukraine is like saying Russia started the War . They didn't - how do I know this - I retired in Ukraine in 2012 and prior to that I worked there. I also know that both Russia and the US have direct energy weapons, Haarp, other " space type weapons, and climate / structural geologic weapons. Russia and China are the least of the worries, compared to what the USG is doing in the world.
Did you get your laser info from Russia Today?
RT didn't cover the Maui attack- and they are not that good of a news source for the US , but way better than the Times or WaPo. I used the good old fashion way - I researched the US Space Weapons a long long time ago. Now go back to your government cubical.
I have done some reading about authoritarianism and Trump and his MAGA movement fit the description. There is a big difference between contesting elections with lawsuits and petitions for recounts and coming up with a scheme to submit electors who did not represent the actual outcomes in their states and pressuring the Vice President to exercise power he did not legitimately have.
Thank you for the Alex Jones-Glen Beck conspiratorial nonsense